Which sins are beyond punishment?Parashat PekudeiPurim and Shushan PurimOrder of punishments/responsibilities...
Don't know what I’m looking for regarding removable HDDs?
Where is the line between being obedient and getting bullied by a boss?
Inverse of the covariance matrix of a multivariate normal distribution
What happened to QGIS 2.x LTR?
Book about a time-travel war fought by computers
Sometimes a banana is just a banana
Every subset equal to original set?
Pure Functions: Does "No Side Effects" Imply "Always Same Output, Given Same Input"?
Are small insurances worth it
What is the difference between a forward slip and a side slip?
Source for Cremation Specifically Not Jewish
How do you say "powers of ten"?
Rationale to prefer local variables over instance variables?
Giving a talk in my old university, how prominently should I tell students my salary?
Where is the fallacy here?
Practical reasons to have both a large police force and bounty hunting network?
How can atoms be electrically neutral when there is a difference in the positions of the charges?
How can I handle a player who pre-plans arguments about my rulings on RAW?
What Does the Heart In Gyms Mean?
How to kill a localhost:8080
What type of investment is best suited for a 1-year investment on a down payment?
Levi-Civita symbol: 3D matrix
What should the omniscient narrator call a character?
What is this waxed root vegetable?
Which sins are beyond punishment?
Parashat PekudeiPurim and Shushan PurimOrder of punishments/responsibilities in viduyPunishment in this World or in the World To ComeDo you get credit for unintentional mitzvot?Are criminals rehabilitated after punishment?Punishment for sins one cannot now be expected to avoidWhat were Naomi's sins?Are thoughts of sin punished halachically?Which sins are specifically punished with drought?Which sins are specifically punished with earthquake?Implications of “According to Your fear is Your anger” (“כיראתך עברתך”)
Yishai said in a comment elsewhere on this forum :
It has been pointed out in Rishonim that some sins are so bad they
can't get a punishment - because the punishment creates forgiveness,
but when the sin is too great, forgiveness is not an option.
- Which sins are these and who are the Rishonim that said this?
- How could a sin be so great so as to be beyond punishment, when even the gravest sins are not [they are punished by capital punishment]?
reward-punishment rishonim
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
add a comment |
Yishai said in a comment elsewhere on this forum :
It has been pointed out in Rishonim that some sins are so bad they
can't get a punishment - because the punishment creates forgiveness,
but when the sin is too great, forgiveness is not an option.
- Which sins are these and who are the Rishonim that said this?
- How could a sin be so great so as to be beyond punishment, when even the gravest sins are not [they are punished by capital punishment]?
reward-punishment rishonim
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Yishai said in a comment elsewhere on this forum :
It has been pointed out in Rishonim that some sins are so bad they
can't get a punishment - because the punishment creates forgiveness,
but when the sin is too great, forgiveness is not an option.
- Which sins are these and who are the Rishonim that said this?
- How could a sin be so great so as to be beyond punishment, when even the gravest sins are not [they are punished by capital punishment]?
reward-punishment rishonim
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
Yishai said in a comment elsewhere on this forum :
It has been pointed out in Rishonim that some sins are so bad they
can't get a punishment - because the punishment creates forgiveness,
but when the sin is too great, forgiveness is not an option.
- Which sins are these and who are the Rishonim that said this?
- How could a sin be so great so as to be beyond punishment, when even the gravest sins are not [they are punished by capital punishment]?
reward-punishment rishonim
reward-punishment rishonim
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
asked 3 hours ago
user9806user9806
21716
21716
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
I found a case attributed to the Semag (one of the last ba'alei Tosfos) where a sin is so heinous that not only is forgiveness not an option, but we don't administer capital punishment since putting this person to death won't serve as atonement (ie we let him live).
But first some background.
There's a prohibition of offering one's children to Molech, a type of avodah zara. Leviticus 18:21 states:
וּמִֽזַּרְעֲךָ֥ לֹא־תִתֵּ֖ן לְהַעֲבִ֣יר לַמֹּ֑לֶךְ וְלֹ֧א תְחַלֵּ֛ל אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ אֲנִ֥י יְהוָֽה׃
Do not allow any of your offspring to be offered up to Molech, and do not profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 64a discusses this in more depth, lots of rishonim weigh in, and Sefer Chinuch, Mitzvah 208 codifies this. The punishment for passing one's child to Molech is death by stoning.
The Semag (סמ"ג · לאו · מ) makes a WILD inference.
העביר כל זרעו פטור שנאמר כי מזרעו נתן למולך מקצת זרעו ולא כל זרעו ויש טעם בזה לתשובת המינים מפני שבמיתת ב"ד מתכפרין המומתין וזה עשה כל כך עבירה גדולה שאין הקב"ה רוצה שיהא לו שום כפרה
If one passed all oh his children [to Molech] he is exempt [from being put to death via beis din], because it says [a person who gives] from his seed to Molech. ie some of his seed, not all of his seed, and there is a reason for this to answer the heretics, namely that death via beis din redeems the said person who was put to death, and this person [who passed ALL of his children to Molech] did such a huge aveirah that Hashem doesn't want him to get this redemption via being put to death via beis din
Bottom line: the Semag says the punishment of stoning is only for a person that gives "some" of his children to Molech. But if that person gave "all" of his children to Molech, it's such a big aveirah that there is no forgiveness and we don't give him a kaparah by putting him to death.
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I found a case attributed to the Semag (one of the last ba'alei Tosfos) where a sin is so heinous that not only is forgiveness not an option, but we don't administer capital punishment since putting this person to death won't serve as atonement (ie we let him live).
But first some background.
There's a prohibition of offering one's children to Molech, a type of avodah zara. Leviticus 18:21 states:
וּמִֽזַּרְעֲךָ֥ לֹא־תִתֵּ֖ן לְהַעֲבִ֣יר לַמֹּ֑לֶךְ וְלֹ֧א תְחַלֵּ֛ל אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ אֲנִ֥י יְהוָֽה׃
Do not allow any of your offspring to be offered up to Molech, and do not profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 64a discusses this in more depth, lots of rishonim weigh in, and Sefer Chinuch, Mitzvah 208 codifies this. The punishment for passing one's child to Molech is death by stoning.
The Semag (סמ"ג · לאו · מ) makes a WILD inference.
העביר כל זרעו פטור שנאמר כי מזרעו נתן למולך מקצת זרעו ולא כל זרעו ויש טעם בזה לתשובת המינים מפני שבמיתת ב"ד מתכפרין המומתין וזה עשה כל כך עבירה גדולה שאין הקב"ה רוצה שיהא לו שום כפרה
If one passed all oh his children [to Molech] he is exempt [from being put to death via beis din], because it says [a person who gives] from his seed to Molech. ie some of his seed, not all of his seed, and there is a reason for this to answer the heretics, namely that death via beis din redeems the said person who was put to death, and this person [who passed ALL of his children to Molech] did such a huge aveirah that Hashem doesn't want him to get this redemption via being put to death via beis din
Bottom line: the Semag says the punishment of stoning is only for a person that gives "some" of his children to Molech. But if that person gave "all" of his children to Molech, it's such a big aveirah that there is no forgiveness and we don't give him a kaparah by putting him to death.
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
add a comment |
I found a case attributed to the Semag (one of the last ba'alei Tosfos) where a sin is so heinous that not only is forgiveness not an option, but we don't administer capital punishment since putting this person to death won't serve as atonement (ie we let him live).
But first some background.
There's a prohibition of offering one's children to Molech, a type of avodah zara. Leviticus 18:21 states:
וּמִֽזַּרְעֲךָ֥ לֹא־תִתֵּ֖ן לְהַעֲבִ֣יר לַמֹּ֑לֶךְ וְלֹ֧א תְחַלֵּ֛ל אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ אֲנִ֥י יְהוָֽה׃
Do not allow any of your offspring to be offered up to Molech, and do not profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 64a discusses this in more depth, lots of rishonim weigh in, and Sefer Chinuch, Mitzvah 208 codifies this. The punishment for passing one's child to Molech is death by stoning.
The Semag (סמ"ג · לאו · מ) makes a WILD inference.
העביר כל זרעו פטור שנאמר כי מזרעו נתן למולך מקצת זרעו ולא כל זרעו ויש טעם בזה לתשובת המינים מפני שבמיתת ב"ד מתכפרין המומתין וזה עשה כל כך עבירה גדולה שאין הקב"ה רוצה שיהא לו שום כפרה
If one passed all oh his children [to Molech] he is exempt [from being put to death via beis din], because it says [a person who gives] from his seed to Molech. ie some of his seed, not all of his seed, and there is a reason for this to answer the heretics, namely that death via beis din redeems the said person who was put to death, and this person [who passed ALL of his children to Molech] did such a huge aveirah that Hashem doesn't want him to get this redemption via being put to death via beis din
Bottom line: the Semag says the punishment of stoning is only for a person that gives "some" of his children to Molech. But if that person gave "all" of his children to Molech, it's such a big aveirah that there is no forgiveness and we don't give him a kaparah by putting him to death.
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
add a comment |
I found a case attributed to the Semag (one of the last ba'alei Tosfos) where a sin is so heinous that not only is forgiveness not an option, but we don't administer capital punishment since putting this person to death won't serve as atonement (ie we let him live).
But first some background.
There's a prohibition of offering one's children to Molech, a type of avodah zara. Leviticus 18:21 states:
וּמִֽזַּרְעֲךָ֥ לֹא־תִתֵּ֖ן לְהַעֲבִ֣יר לַמֹּ֑לֶךְ וְלֹ֧א תְחַלֵּ֛ל אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ אֲנִ֥י יְהוָֽה׃
Do not allow any of your offspring to be offered up to Molech, and do not profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 64a discusses this in more depth, lots of rishonim weigh in, and Sefer Chinuch, Mitzvah 208 codifies this. The punishment for passing one's child to Molech is death by stoning.
The Semag (סמ"ג · לאו · מ) makes a WILD inference.
העביר כל זרעו פטור שנאמר כי מזרעו נתן למולך מקצת זרעו ולא כל זרעו ויש טעם בזה לתשובת המינים מפני שבמיתת ב"ד מתכפרין המומתין וזה עשה כל כך עבירה גדולה שאין הקב"ה רוצה שיהא לו שום כפרה
If one passed all oh his children [to Molech] he is exempt [from being put to death via beis din], because it says [a person who gives] from his seed to Molech. ie some of his seed, not all of his seed, and there is a reason for this to answer the heretics, namely that death via beis din redeems the said person who was put to death, and this person [who passed ALL of his children to Molech] did such a huge aveirah that Hashem doesn't want him to get this redemption via being put to death via beis din
Bottom line: the Semag says the punishment of stoning is only for a person that gives "some" of his children to Molech. But if that person gave "all" of his children to Molech, it's such a big aveirah that there is no forgiveness and we don't give him a kaparah by putting him to death.
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
I found a case attributed to the Semag (one of the last ba'alei Tosfos) where a sin is so heinous that not only is forgiveness not an option, but we don't administer capital punishment since putting this person to death won't serve as atonement (ie we let him live).
But first some background.
There's a prohibition of offering one's children to Molech, a type of avodah zara. Leviticus 18:21 states:
וּמִֽזַּרְעֲךָ֥ לֹא־תִתֵּ֖ן לְהַעֲבִ֣יר לַמֹּ֑לֶךְ וְלֹ֧א תְחַלֵּ֛ל אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ אֲנִ֥י יְהוָֽה׃
Do not allow any of your offspring to be offered up to Molech, and do not profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 64a discusses this in more depth, lots of rishonim weigh in, and Sefer Chinuch, Mitzvah 208 codifies this. The punishment for passing one's child to Molech is death by stoning.
The Semag (סמ"ג · לאו · מ) makes a WILD inference.
העביר כל זרעו פטור שנאמר כי מזרעו נתן למולך מקצת זרעו ולא כל זרעו ויש טעם בזה לתשובת המינים מפני שבמיתת ב"ד מתכפרין המומתין וזה עשה כל כך עבירה גדולה שאין הקב"ה רוצה שיהא לו שום כפרה
If one passed all oh his children [to Molech] he is exempt [from being put to death via beis din], because it says [a person who gives] from his seed to Molech. ie some of his seed, not all of his seed, and there is a reason for this to answer the heretics, namely that death via beis din redeems the said person who was put to death, and this person [who passed ALL of his children to Molech] did such a huge aveirah that Hashem doesn't want him to get this redemption via being put to death via beis din
Bottom line: the Semag says the punishment of stoning is only for a person that gives "some" of his children to Molech. But if that person gave "all" of his children to Molech, it's such a big aveirah that there is no forgiveness and we don't give him a kaparah by putting him to death.
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
edited 34 mins ago
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
answered 2 hours ago
alichtalicht
1,3991225
1,3991225
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
add a comment |
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
Exactly the case I was thinking of when I made the comment. +1. But the way you wrote the answer implies that the Smag says that a case of all his children is not punished. The Gemara says that. The smag is explaining why the lesser sin gets a punishment but the greater sin does not.
– Yishai
19 mins ago
add a comment |
I recall hearing some variation of this thought applied to the whole idea of Pharaoh's heart being hardened during the Makkos.
– Salmononius2
1 hour ago