How does a Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death feature work with Touch-range spells delivered by familiars? ...

Should gear shift center itself while in neutral?

Is there a documented rationale why the House Ways and Means chairman can demand tax info?

Why does Python start at index -1 when indexing a list from the end?

Using et al. for a last / senior author rather than for a first author

Why is black pepper both grey and black?

Should I call the interviewer directly, if HR aren't responding?

Is the address of a local variable a constexpr?

How to find all the available tools in macOS terminal?

Does surprise arrest existing movement?

Does accepting a pardon have any bearing on trying that person for the same crime in a sovereign jurisdiction?

How to draw this diagram using TikZ package?

What is the musical term for a note that continously plays through a melody?

Bonus calculation: Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Why aren't air breathing engines used as small first stages

How to recreate this effect in Photoshop?

What would be the ideal power source for a cybernetic eye?

What makes black pepper strong or mild?

Antler Helmet: Can it work?

What is this single-engine low-wing propeller plane?

List *all* the tuples!

What does the "x" in "x86" represent?

Is high blood pressure ever a symptom attributable solely to dehydration?

Models of set theory where not every set can be linearly ordered

Withdrew £2800, but only £2000 shows as withdrawn on online banking; what are my obligations?



How does a Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death feature work with Touch-range spells delivered by familiars?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Time to retire the [rules-as-written] tag?If my kobold uses a familiar to deliver Shocking Grasp, do I roll with advantage thanks to Pack Tactics?Can clerics use spell scrolls for spells they receive through their Divine domains?Familiar and touch spellsHow much will Vampiric Touch heal if combined with Touch of Death?Can the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity stack with the Paladin's Smite?I am neither a Wizard, nor a Warlock. How can I get a “full-featured” familiar?Does a touch-range spell cast using Find Familiar have to have line of sight from the caster?Can metamagic be applied to a spell delivered by a familiar?How does the Mirror Image spell interact with the Trickery cleric's Invoke Duplicity ability?Can a multiclassed barbarian/cleric use their Channel Divinity while raging?For a multiclassed cleric/wizard, can cleric class features be applied to my wizard spells, and vice versa?





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







5












$begingroup$


My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.



Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$



















    5












    $begingroup$


    My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.



    Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$


      My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.



      Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.



      Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?







      dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 3 hours ago









      V2Blast

      27.3k595165




      27.3k595165










      asked 4 hours ago









      Brendan TriceBrendan Trice

      1086




      1086






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack



          The relevant section of find familiar says:




          Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.




          This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".



          The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):




          Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.



          When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.




          This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.



          One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:




          Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.




          Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.



          Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.



          The counterargument



          Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.



          It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            3 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            2 hours ago



















          0












          $begingroup$

          No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells



          Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.



          The find familiar spell description reads:




          ...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
          deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.




          This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:




          When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
          regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.



          Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
          the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
          components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
          spell’s effect.




          We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.



          Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "122"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145269%2fhow-does-a-death-domain-clerics-touch-of-death-feature-work-with-touch-range-sp%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            4












            $begingroup$

            Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack



            The relevant section of find familiar says:




            Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.




            This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".



            The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):




            Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.



            When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.




            This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.



            One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:




            Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.




            Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.



            Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.



            The counterargument



            Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.



            It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
              $endgroup$
              – David Coffron
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              2 hours ago
















            4












            $begingroup$

            Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack



            The relevant section of find familiar says:




            Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.




            This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".



            The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):




            Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.



            When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.




            This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.



            One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:




            Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.




            Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.



            Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.



            The counterargument



            Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.



            It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
              $endgroup$
              – David Coffron
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              2 hours ago














            4












            4








            4





            $begingroup$

            Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack



            The relevant section of find familiar says:




            Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.




            This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".



            The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):




            Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.



            When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.




            This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.



            One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:




            Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.




            Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.



            Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.



            The counterargument



            Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.



            It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack



            The relevant section of find familiar says:




            Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.




            This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".



            The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):




            Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.



            When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.




            This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.



            One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:




            Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.




            Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.



            Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.



            The counterargument



            Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.



            It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 hours ago

























            answered 3 hours ago









            V2BlastV2Blast

            27.3k595165




            27.3k595165












            • $begingroup$
              This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
              $endgroup$
              – David Coffron
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              2 hours ago


















            • $begingroup$
              This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
              $endgroup$
              – David Coffron
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              2 hours ago
















            $begingroup$
            This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            3 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            3 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            2 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            2 hours ago













            0












            $begingroup$

            No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells



            Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.



            The find familiar spell description reads:




            ...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
            deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.




            This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:




            When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
            regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.



            Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
            the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
            components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
            spell’s effect.




            We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.



            Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells



              Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.



              The find familiar spell description reads:




              ...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
              deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.




              This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:




              When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
              regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.



              Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
              the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
              components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
              spell’s effect.




              We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.



              Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells



                Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.



                The find familiar spell description reads:




                ...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
                deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.




                This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:




                When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
                regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.



                Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
                the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
                components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
                spell’s effect.




                We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.



                Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells



                Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.



                The find familiar spell description reads:




                ...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
                deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.




                This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:




                When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
                regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.



                Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
                the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
                components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
                spell’s effect.




                We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.



                Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 40 mins ago

























                answered 51 mins ago









                Pink SweetenerPink Sweetener

                3,1631629




                3,1631629






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145269%2fhow-does-a-death-domain-clerics-touch-of-death-feature-work-with-touch-range-sp%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Can't compile dgruyter and caption packagesLaTeX templates/packages for writing a patent specificationLatex...

                    Schneeberg (Smreczany) Bibliografia | Menu...

                    Hans Bellmer Spis treści Życiorys | Upamiętnienie | Przypisy | Bibliografia | Linki zewnętrzne |...