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practical use of `noexpand` outside`edef`(`xdef`) and `write`(`messge`)?

How to do scantokens inside edef without triggering “Runaway definition”When to use edef, noexpand, and expandafter?Problem with nested noexpand and edefForce the expansion of a macro parameter without edef or xdefHow to use noexpand in an edef?Explain this macro: double hash with no number, ialignedef, xdef and ifmmodexdef and cedilleLaTeX for plain TeX users?Protecting blocks of text and commands, not just one command, from expansion`def`, `edef` math and commands

0

1

After reading (and searching through) TeXbyTopic.pdf I have the impression that practical use of noexpand falls into one of the following three cases,

1. 
   

   Inside edef or xdef, including the cases where macros are defined so that they are used in the context of edef, such as

   
   
   

   defprotect{noexpandprotectnoexpand}

   
   



2. Inside write and message, including the case of movable texts in LaTeX



3. In the special construction ifnoexpand#1relax
   

Are there any other practical uses of noexpand? Are there any practical use of noexpand that is not in the expansion-only context, except for #3 listed above? I am new to plain and hope to understand plain better (especailly, the expansion-only context) by understanding various usages of noexpand.

expansion plain-tex

share|improve this question

edited 19 hours ago

Weijun Zhou

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thank you for your quick reply. I am just wondering whether there are more cases like #3 in the question. Basically I am trying to summarize the usages of noexpand and if you think you can rephrase the question so that it does not seem so "no"-leading, feel free to edit.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  19 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

0

1

After reading (and searching through) TeXbyTopic.pdf I have the impression that practical use of noexpand falls into one of the following three cases,

1. 
   

   Inside edef or xdef, including the cases where macros are defined so that they are used in the context of edef, such as

   
   
   

   defprotect{noexpandprotectnoexpand}

   
   



2. Inside write and message, including the case of movable texts in LaTeX



3. In the special construction ifnoexpand#1relax
   

Are there any other practical uses of noexpand? Are there any practical use of noexpand that is not in the expansion-only context, except for #3 listed above? I am new to plain and hope to understand plain better (especailly, the expansion-only context) by understanding various usages of noexpand.

expansion plain-tex

share|improve this question

edited 19 hours ago

Weijun Zhou

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thank you for your quick reply. I am just wondering whether there are more cases like #3 in the question. Basically I am trying to summarize the usages of noexpand and if you think you can rephrase the question so that it does not seem so "no"-leading, feel free to edit.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  19 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

After reading (and searching through) TeXbyTopic.pdf I have the impression that practical use of noexpand falls into one of the following three cases,

1. 
   

   Inside edef or xdef, including the cases where macros are defined so that they are used in the context of edef, such as

   
   
   

   defprotect{noexpandprotectnoexpand}

   
   



2. Inside write and message, including the case of movable texts in LaTeX



3. In the special construction ifnoexpand#1relax
   

Are there any other practical uses of noexpand? Are there any practical use of noexpand that is not in the expansion-only context, except for #3 listed above? I am new to plain and hope to understand plain better (especailly, the expansion-only context) by understanding various usages of noexpand.

expansion plain-tex

share|improve this question

edited 19 hours ago

Weijun Zhou

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 19 hours ago

Weijun Zhou

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 19 hours ago

Weijun Zhou

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

New contributor

Weijun Zhou is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 20 hours ago

Weijun ZhouWeijun Zhou

1405

1 Answer
1

active

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votes

4

There are lots of tex primitives that expand tokens looking for arguments like if and ifcat. noexpand would have a similar effect with any of them but whether or not that is useful is harder to say.

for example

defzz{hello}



input snoexpandzz



bye

inputs the file s.tex and then typesets hello whereas

defzz{hello}



input szz



bye

produces

! I can't find file `shello'.

But you could more easily have used a space after s than noexpand to stop the scan for a filename.

As indicated by Henri in comments there is also the use to nullify the end of file token in input or scantokens

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

is the error

! File ended while scanning definition of zz.

but

edefzz{scantokens{znoexpand}}

or

everyeof{noexpand}

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

are error free.

share|improve this answer

edited 18 hours ago

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think this one may be useful under some cases. Glad to learn about it.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  ascantokens{b}c vs. ascantokens{bnoexpand}c
  
  – Henri Menke
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @HenriMenke thanks I extended the answer.
  
  – David Carlisle
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Related: How to do scantokens inside edef without triggering runaway definition. The link can be added to the answer if you wish.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  18 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You can use noexpand for tricking TeX's reading apparatus into state S when having things re-tokenized by scantokens and thus prevent the coming into being of a trailing space token. This is what is shown in the comment of Henri Menke. You can also use noexpand for neutralizing the circumstance that TeX takes ends of files for something that is similar to outer tokens. You might be interested in the discussion How does TeX handle EOF which took place in the usenet-newsgroup comp.text.tex in March 2008.
  
  – Ulrich Diez
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

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4

There are lots of tex primitives that expand tokens looking for arguments like if and ifcat. noexpand would have a similar effect with any of them but whether or not that is useful is harder to say.

for example

defzz{hello}



input snoexpandzz



bye

inputs the file s.tex and then typesets hello whereas

defzz{hello}



input szz



bye

produces

! I can't find file `shello'.

But you could more easily have used a space after s than noexpand to stop the scan for a filename.

As indicated by Henri in comments there is also the use to nullify the end of file token in input or scantokens

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

is the error

! File ended while scanning definition of zz.

but

edefzz{scantokens{znoexpand}}

or

everyeof{noexpand}

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

are error free.

share|improve this answer

edited 18 hours ago

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think this one may be useful under some cases. Glad to learn about it.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  ascantokens{b}c vs. ascantokens{bnoexpand}c
  
  – Henri Menke
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @HenriMenke thanks I extended the answer.
  
  – David Carlisle
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Related: How to do scantokens inside edef without triggering runaway definition. The link can be added to the answer if you wish.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  18 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You can use noexpand for tricking TeX's reading apparatus into state S when having things re-tokenized by scantokens and thus prevent the coming into being of a trailing space token. This is what is shown in the comment of Henri Menke. You can also use noexpand for neutralizing the circumstance that TeX takes ends of files for something that is similar to outer tokens. You might be interested in the discussion How does TeX handle EOF which took place in the usenet-newsgroup comp.text.tex in March 2008.
  
  – Ulrich Diez
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

4

There are lots of tex primitives that expand tokens looking for arguments like if and ifcat. noexpand would have a similar effect with any of them but whether or not that is useful is harder to say.

for example

defzz{hello}



input snoexpandzz



bye

inputs the file s.tex and then typesets hello whereas

defzz{hello}



input szz



bye

produces

! I can't find file `shello'.

But you could more easily have used a space after s than noexpand to stop the scan for a filename.

As indicated by Henri in comments there is also the use to nullify the end of file token in input or scantokens

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

is the error

! File ended while scanning definition of zz.

but

edefzz{scantokens{znoexpand}}

or

everyeof{noexpand}

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

are error free.

share|improve this answer

edited 18 hours ago

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think this one may be useful under some cases. Glad to learn about it.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  ascantokens{b}c vs. ascantokens{bnoexpand}c
  
  – Henri Menke
  19 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @HenriMenke thanks I extended the answer.
  
  – David Carlisle
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Related: How to do scantokens inside edef without triggering runaway definition. The link can be added to the answer if you wish.
  
  – Weijun Zhou
  18 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You can use noexpand for tricking TeX's reading apparatus into state S when having things re-tokenized by scantokens and thus prevent the coming into being of a trailing space token. This is what is shown in the comment of Henri Menke. You can also use noexpand for neutralizing the circumstance that TeX takes ends of files for something that is similar to outer tokens. You might be interested in the discussion How does TeX handle EOF which took place in the usenet-newsgroup comp.text.tex in March 2008.
  
  – Ulrich Diez
  18 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

There are lots of tex primitives that expand tokens looking for arguments like if and ifcat. noexpand would have a similar effect with any of them but whether or not that is useful is harder to say.

for example

defzz{hello}



input snoexpandzz



bye

inputs the file s.tex and then typesets hello whereas

defzz{hello}



input szz



bye

produces

! I can't find file `shello'.

But you could more easily have used a space after s than noexpand to stop the scan for a filename.

As indicated by Henri in comments there is also the use to nullify the end of file token in input or scantokens

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

is the error

! File ended while scanning definition of zz.

but

edefzz{scantokens{znoexpand}}

or

everyeof{noexpand}

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

are error free.

share|improve this answer

edited 18 hours ago

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

defzz{hello}



input snoexpandzz



bye

defzz{hello}



input szz



bye

! I can't find file `shello'.

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

! File ended while scanning definition of zz.

edefzz{scantokens{znoexpand}}

everyeof{noexpand}

edefzz{scantokens{z}}

share|improve this answer

edited 18 hours ago

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893

answered 19 hours ago

David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

498k4111441893