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How long can equipment go unused before powering up runs the risk of damage?
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I have an older solid state radio transceiver I want to power up but I understand that electrolytic capacitors loose their function after a long time of non-use. There are articles about reforming electrolytics, but not much is said about how long electrolytics can be unpowered before precautions need to be take on powering up again.
The equipment is non-critical, no tubes, linear power supply. It is a TenTec Argosy II amateur radio transceiver. I can replace the caps if I need to. (And, yes, I am licensed to use the radio. KD4TTC)
power-supply capacitor damage
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have an older solid state radio transceiver I want to power up but I understand that electrolytic capacitors loose their function after a long time of non-use. There are articles about reforming electrolytics, but not much is said about how long electrolytics can be unpowered before precautions need to be take on powering up again.
The equipment is non-critical, no tubes, linear power supply. It is a TenTec Argosy II amateur radio transceiver. I can replace the caps if I need to. (And, yes, I am licensed to use the radio. KD4TTC)
power-supply capacitor damage
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
$endgroup$
– Toor
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have an older solid state radio transceiver I want to power up but I understand that electrolytic capacitors loose their function after a long time of non-use. There are articles about reforming electrolytics, but not much is said about how long electrolytics can be unpowered before precautions need to be take on powering up again.
The equipment is non-critical, no tubes, linear power supply. It is a TenTec Argosy II amateur radio transceiver. I can replace the caps if I need to. (And, yes, I am licensed to use the radio. KD4TTC)
power-supply capacitor damage
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
$endgroup$
I have an older solid state radio transceiver I want to power up but I understand that electrolytic capacitors loose their function after a long time of non-use. There are articles about reforming electrolytics, but not much is said about how long electrolytics can be unpowered before precautions need to be take on powering up again.
The equipment is non-critical, no tubes, linear power supply. It is a TenTec Argosy II amateur radio transceiver. I can replace the caps if I need to. (And, yes, I am licensed to use the radio. KD4TTC)
power-supply capacitor damage
power-supply capacitor damage
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
asked 4 hours ago
kd4ttckd4ttc
1163
1163
2
$begingroup$
Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
$endgroup$
– Toor
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
$endgroup$
– Toor
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
$endgroup$
– Toor
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
$endgroup$
– Toor
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
$endgroup$
– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If your worried about it then get a capacitor ESR tester, deslolder a few from the board and test the values of the caps and make sure they match the markings on the package. Also test the ESR. If you can find a datasheet for the caps, then you might find nominal ESR values there or find an equivalent capacitor in that range. If the ESR values seem high then replace the caps.
If that can't be done then find the voltage of the circuit and unsolder a few and test them with a supply, if they are leaking a lot of current, then don't use them.
It's probably better to replace them anyway if there is a question, especially any caps that could have large currents flow through them.
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This was an excellent transceiver. But it is so old that the service manual used MF for uF=μF and yet UH for uH=μH.
MF is these days means millifarads not microfarads as in this unit service manual.
The 100W Tx will have need of good low ESR e-caps on supply for low ripple if they need replacing.
Do not operate Tx without a dummy load or antenna.
- Get the service manual below. or email to them for service related questions.
Get a DMM to measure Vdc and Vac ripple on large caps where the ripple voltage must be << 1% of Vdc to be considered good. ( Dissipation Factor, DF at 120Hz in datasheets.)
http://www.tentec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Argosy_II_Model_525_Manualf933.pdf
Unfortunately the service manual omitted the power supply board which is the main concern for worn out e-caps after 10 to 20 yrs with low C and high ESR values.
- so you **want to wing it* by looking for signs of slight end-bulge and measurements or hum on Rx or Tx.
- If everything looks OK, power it up. The only potential damage can be from pressing Tx without a load.
a portable RLC meter is often a good investment to verify caps out of the circuit.
anecdotal: When my Sanyo receiver was 15 yrs old and had spurious noise, I found one bad electrolytic or e-cap then replaced all of similar size or bigger and discover a few more were also bad. so I ordered/replaced about a dozen of them. The cost of parts are cheap from Digikey and often less than the courier cost.
Cap conditioning.
At one time Computer grade 100k uF capacitors had high leakage currents which could be conditioned by a high series R to clear up the leakage currents. This unfortunately does nothing from failed caps that suffer from high Effective Series Resistance (ESR) and low Capacitance. As others have said. it wont help.
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If your worried about it then get a capacitor ESR tester, deslolder a few from the board and test the values of the caps and make sure they match the markings on the package. Also test the ESR. If you can find a datasheet for the caps, then you might find nominal ESR values there or find an equivalent capacitor in that range. If the ESR values seem high then replace the caps.
If that can't be done then find the voltage of the circuit and unsolder a few and test them with a supply, if they are leaking a lot of current, then don't use them.
It's probably better to replace them anyway if there is a question, especially any caps that could have large currents flow through them.
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your worried about it then get a capacitor ESR tester, deslolder a few from the board and test the values of the caps and make sure they match the markings on the package. Also test the ESR. If you can find a datasheet for the caps, then you might find nominal ESR values there or find an equivalent capacitor in that range. If the ESR values seem high then replace the caps.
If that can't be done then find the voltage of the circuit and unsolder a few and test them with a supply, if they are leaking a lot of current, then don't use them.
It's probably better to replace them anyway if there is a question, especially any caps that could have large currents flow through them.
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your worried about it then get a capacitor ESR tester, deslolder a few from the board and test the values of the caps and make sure they match the markings on the package. Also test the ESR. If you can find a datasheet for the caps, then you might find nominal ESR values there or find an equivalent capacitor in that range. If the ESR values seem high then replace the caps.
If that can't be done then find the voltage of the circuit and unsolder a few and test them with a supply, if they are leaking a lot of current, then don't use them.
It's probably better to replace them anyway if there is a question, especially any caps that could have large currents flow through them.
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
$endgroup$
If your worried about it then get a capacitor ESR tester, deslolder a few from the board and test the values of the caps and make sure they match the markings on the package. Also test the ESR. If you can find a datasheet for the caps, then you might find nominal ESR values there or find an equivalent capacitor in that range. If the ESR values seem high then replace the caps.
If that can't be done then find the voltage of the circuit and unsolder a few and test them with a supply, if they are leaking a lot of current, then don't use them.
It's probably better to replace them anyway if there is a question, especially any caps that could have large currents flow through them.
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
answered 3 hours ago
laptop2dlaptop2d
28.2k123786
28.2k123786
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I agree........+1
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This was an excellent transceiver. But it is so old that the service manual used MF for uF=μF and yet UH for uH=μH.
MF is these days means millifarads not microfarads as in this unit service manual.
The 100W Tx will have need of good low ESR e-caps on supply for low ripple if they need replacing.
Do not operate Tx without a dummy load or antenna.
- Get the service manual below. or email to them for service related questions.
Get a DMM to measure Vdc and Vac ripple on large caps where the ripple voltage must be << 1% of Vdc to be considered good. ( Dissipation Factor, DF at 120Hz in datasheets.)
http://www.tentec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Argosy_II_Model_525_Manualf933.pdf
Unfortunately the service manual omitted the power supply board which is the main concern for worn out e-caps after 10 to 20 yrs with low C and high ESR values.
- so you **want to wing it* by looking for signs of slight end-bulge and measurements or hum on Rx or Tx.
- If everything looks OK, power it up. The only potential damage can be from pressing Tx without a load.
a portable RLC meter is often a good investment to verify caps out of the circuit.
anecdotal: When my Sanyo receiver was 15 yrs old and had spurious noise, I found one bad electrolytic or e-cap then replaced all of similar size or bigger and discover a few more were also bad. so I ordered/replaced about a dozen of them. The cost of parts are cheap from Digikey and often less than the courier cost.
Cap conditioning.
At one time Computer grade 100k uF capacitors had high leakage currents which could be conditioned by a high series R to clear up the leakage currents. This unfortunately does nothing from failed caps that suffer from high Effective Series Resistance (ESR) and low Capacitance. As others have said. it wont help.
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This was an excellent transceiver. But it is so old that the service manual used MF for uF=μF and yet UH for uH=μH.
MF is these days means millifarads not microfarads as in this unit service manual.
The 100W Tx will have need of good low ESR e-caps on supply for low ripple if they need replacing.
Do not operate Tx without a dummy load or antenna.
- Get the service manual below. or email to them for service related questions.
Get a DMM to measure Vdc and Vac ripple on large caps where the ripple voltage must be << 1% of Vdc to be considered good. ( Dissipation Factor, DF at 120Hz in datasheets.)
http://www.tentec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Argosy_II_Model_525_Manualf933.pdf
Unfortunately the service manual omitted the power supply board which is the main concern for worn out e-caps after 10 to 20 yrs with low C and high ESR values.
- so you **want to wing it* by looking for signs of slight end-bulge and measurements or hum on Rx or Tx.
- If everything looks OK, power it up. The only potential damage can be from pressing Tx without a load.
a portable RLC meter is often a good investment to verify caps out of the circuit.
anecdotal: When my Sanyo receiver was 15 yrs old and had spurious noise, I found one bad electrolytic or e-cap then replaced all of similar size or bigger and discover a few more were also bad. so I ordered/replaced about a dozen of them. The cost of parts are cheap from Digikey and often less than the courier cost.
Cap conditioning.
At one time Computer grade 100k uF capacitors had high leakage currents which could be conditioned by a high series R to clear up the leakage currents. This unfortunately does nothing from failed caps that suffer from high Effective Series Resistance (ESR) and low Capacitance. As others have said. it wont help.
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This was an excellent transceiver. But it is so old that the service manual used MF for uF=μF and yet UH for uH=μH.
MF is these days means millifarads not microfarads as in this unit service manual.
The 100W Tx will have need of good low ESR e-caps on supply for low ripple if they need replacing.
Do not operate Tx without a dummy load or antenna.
- Get the service manual below. or email to them for service related questions.
Get a DMM to measure Vdc and Vac ripple on large caps where the ripple voltage must be << 1% of Vdc to be considered good. ( Dissipation Factor, DF at 120Hz in datasheets.)
http://www.tentec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Argosy_II_Model_525_Manualf933.pdf
Unfortunately the service manual omitted the power supply board which is the main concern for worn out e-caps after 10 to 20 yrs with low C and high ESR values.
- so you **want to wing it* by looking for signs of slight end-bulge and measurements or hum on Rx or Tx.
- If everything looks OK, power it up. The only potential damage can be from pressing Tx without a load.
a portable RLC meter is often a good investment to verify caps out of the circuit.
anecdotal: When my Sanyo receiver was 15 yrs old and had spurious noise, I found one bad electrolytic or e-cap then replaced all of similar size or bigger and discover a few more were also bad. so I ordered/replaced about a dozen of them. The cost of parts are cheap from Digikey and often less than the courier cost.
Cap conditioning.
At one time Computer grade 100k uF capacitors had high leakage currents which could be conditioned by a high series R to clear up the leakage currents. This unfortunately does nothing from failed caps that suffer from high Effective Series Resistance (ESR) and low Capacitance. As others have said. it wont help.
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
$endgroup$
This was an excellent transceiver. But it is so old that the service manual used MF for uF=μF and yet UH for uH=μH.
MF is these days means millifarads not microfarads as in this unit service manual.
The 100W Tx will have need of good low ESR e-caps on supply for low ripple if they need replacing.
Do not operate Tx without a dummy load or antenna.
- Get the service manual below. or email to them for service related questions.
Get a DMM to measure Vdc and Vac ripple on large caps where the ripple voltage must be << 1% of Vdc to be considered good. ( Dissipation Factor, DF at 120Hz in datasheets.)
http://www.tentec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Argosy_II_Model_525_Manualf933.pdf
Unfortunately the service manual omitted the power supply board which is the main concern for worn out e-caps after 10 to 20 yrs with low C and high ESR values.
- so you **want to wing it* by looking for signs of slight end-bulge and measurements or hum on Rx or Tx.
- If everything looks OK, power it up. The only potential damage can be from pressing Tx without a load.
a portable RLC meter is often a good investment to verify caps out of the circuit.
anecdotal: When my Sanyo receiver was 15 yrs old and had spurious noise, I found one bad electrolytic or e-cap then replaced all of similar size or bigger and discover a few more were also bad. so I ordered/replaced about a dozen of them. The cost of parts are cheap from Digikey and often less than the courier cost.
Cap conditioning.
At one time Computer grade 100k uF capacitors had high leakage currents which could be conditioned by a high series R to clear up the leakage currents. This unfortunately does nothing from failed caps that suffer from high Effective Series Resistance (ESR) and low Capacitance. As others have said. it wont help.
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
answered 2 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
72k227103
72k227103
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trolls are back ( non-contributors = -2) and shall remain nameless.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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2
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Electrolytics can also dry out...reforming can't do anything about that.
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– Toor
4 hours ago
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You should probably seek input from other users of that model on an Amateur Radio forum. The question is not really on topic here, because it is about the usage/repair of a product for which you are not providing any design information.
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– Chris Stratton
3 hours ago
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@ChrisStratton hm, maybe the question of "would the proposed procedure actually help, and does it potentially have any downsides for devices from the mid-80ies" would be more on-topic?
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– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
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@MarcusMüller - this kind of gear is designed to actually be maintained and has a technically aware user community. Consulting that expertise is much better than taking guesses from first principles.
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– Chris Stratton
2 hours ago