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Symbolism of 18 Journeyers
When should my amnesiac protagonist regain memory?What constitutes a 'hook?'Guidance on pacing the introduction of new charactersorganising complex networksHow do you create a huge array of characters?How do I write different factions with ideologies, philosophies, and symbolism?Does symbolism have only one level of depth?Symbolism of number of crows?How to choose ideal number of main characters?How to cue in our readers that we are using an uncommon symbolism?
In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.
Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).
There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.
In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?
characters novel story symbolism
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
add a comment |
In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.
Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).
There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.
In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?
characters novel story symbolism
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
1
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.
Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).
There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.
In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?
characters novel story symbolism
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.
Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).
There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.
In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?
characters novel story symbolism
characters novel story symbolism
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
asked 3 hours ago
CynCyn
14.1k12970
14.1k12970
1
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago
1
1
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.
If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
add a comment |
You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?
You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.
To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.
If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
add a comment |
How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.
If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
add a comment |
How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.
If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.
If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
answered 58 mins ago
Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow
3766
3766
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
add a comment |
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...
– Cyn
38 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.
– Evil Sparrow
19 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.
– Cyn
15 mins ago
add a comment |
You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?
You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.
To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
add a comment |
You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?
You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.
To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
add a comment |
You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?
You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.
To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?
You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.
To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
answered 2 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
36.7k6109194
36.7k6109194
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
add a comment |
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).
– Cyn
1 hour ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?
– alephzero
2 mins ago
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1
Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?
– Monica Cellio♦
1 hour ago
@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.
– Cyn
1 hour ago