Why would the Pakistan airspace closure cancel flights not headed to Pakistan itself?Why would Emirates fly...

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Why would the Pakistan airspace closure cancel flights not headed to Pakistan itself?


Why would Emirates fly over Iraq, avoiding Iran?Why aren't there direct flights connecting Honolulu, Hawaii and London, UK?Why might this trans-pacific flight not follow a more direct route?Why didn't Air India always fly DEL-SFO over the Pacific?Why would FlightAware show this meandering flight path?Why did Air India 139 fly so far south?Why are flights from Fuzhou or Xiamen to Taiwan not allowed to overfly Taiwan strait?Why are waypoints not named uniquely?Why does this flight fly over Bangladesh, and not over Nepal and China?













11












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routs fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    1 hour ago
















11












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routs fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    1 hour ago














11












11








11





$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routs fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routs fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.







airline-operations airspace flight-path pakistan






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 17 mins ago









ymb1

66.2k7210351




66.2k7210351










asked 5 hours ago









MachavityMachavity

2,2372531




2,2372531












  • $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    3 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    3 hours ago



















5












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    4












    $begingroup$

    Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



    Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



    https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Seifert
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Seifert
      1 hour ago











    Your Answer





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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    15












    $begingroup$

    To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
    Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



    Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



    Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



    Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Hampton
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
      $endgroup$
      – user189035
      3 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
      $endgroup$
      – zymhan
      3 hours ago
















    15












    $begingroup$

    To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
    Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



    Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



    Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



    Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Hampton
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
      $endgroup$
      – user189035
      3 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
      $endgroup$
      – zymhan
      3 hours ago














    15












    15








    15





    $begingroup$

    To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
    Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



    Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



    Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



    Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
    Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



    Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



    Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



    Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 5 hours ago









    jwentingjwenting

    11.5k12845




    11.5k12845












    • $begingroup$
      Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Hampton
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
      $endgroup$
      – user189035
      3 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
      $endgroup$
      – zymhan
      3 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
      $endgroup$
      – Michael Hampton
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
      $endgroup$
      – user189035
      3 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
      $endgroup$
      – zymhan
      3 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    4 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    3 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    3 hours ago














    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    3 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    3 hours ago











    5












    $begingroup$

    There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




    • Take-off & landing slot assignments


      • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



    • Departure & arrival gate assignments


      • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



    • Aircraft range.


      • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      5












      $begingroup$

      There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




      • Take-off & landing slot assignments


        • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



      • Departure & arrival gate assignments


        • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



      • Aircraft range.


        • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        5












        5








        5





        $begingroup$

        There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




        • Take-off & landing slot assignments


          • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



        • Departure & arrival gate assignments


          • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



        • Aircraft range.


          • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




        • Take-off & landing slot assignments


          • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



        • Departure & arrival gate assignments


          • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



        • Aircraft range.


          • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.









        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 5 hours ago









        FreeManFreeMan

        6,943955120




        6,943955120























            4












            $begingroup$

            Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



            Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



            https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              1 hour ago
















            4












            $begingroup$

            Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



            Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



            https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              1 hour ago














            4












            4








            4





            $begingroup$

            Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



            Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



            https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



            Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



            https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 2 hours ago









            BowlOfRedBowlOfRed

            3,52911025




            3,52911025












            • $begingroup$
              Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              1 hour ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Seifert
              1 hour ago
















            $begingroup$
            Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Seifert
            2 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Seifert
            2 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Seifert
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Seifert
            1 hour ago


















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